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Life_on_the_row
"I deserve, certainly, the most extreme punishment society has, and I think society deserves to be protected from me and others like me." Ted Bundy
Joined: Oct 2006 Gender: Female Posts: 830 Location: UK Karma: 43
Crippen Found Innocent « Thread Started on Oct 29, 2007, 10:50pm »
Thursday, October 25, 2007 DNA clears man executed in 1910 State native wrongly convicted of poisoning, dismembering wife in sensational British trial. James Prichard / Associated Press
GRAND RAPIDS -- The name Hawley Crippen has been synonymous with murder for nearly a century in England. The Michigan-born homeopathic physician was executed in November 1910 after being convicted earlier in the year of poisoning and dismembering his showgirl wife. Crippen was arrested after he and his mistress fled the country across the Atlantic Ocean with the police in pursuit. Investigators from Scotland Yard pinned their case on some human tissue found beneath some steps in the cellar of the couple's London home. A pathologist testifying on behalf of the prosecution during the sensational trial identified what he claimed was an abdominal scar consistent with Cora Crippen's medical history.
The jury took only 27 minutes to convict Hawley Crippen, who was born in Coldwater, about 100 miles southwest of Detroit. Until his hanging 10 months later, he always maintained his innocence, saying his wife had run off with another man. Now, some Michigan medical researchers say their examination of DNA evidence proves conclusively that the human remains were not those of Crippen's wife but of someone else. "Whose tissue's under the steps? That's another trial. That's another investigation," said John Trestrail III, a Grand Rapids clinical and forensic toxicologist. "But the bottom line is, Hawley Crippen was hanged in error." Trestrail, the managing director of the DeVos Children's Hospital Regional Poison Center, said the case has fascinated him for more than 30 years. The dismemberment never made any sense to him because people who use poison to murder their victims want such deaths to look as natural as possible. He formed a team several years ago with David Foran, who heads up a forensics biology laboratory at Michigan State University, and Beth Wills, a genealogist from Ionia, to resolve what he saw as inconsistent evidence. Foran needed some DNA from the victim to begin his work. The Royal London Hospital Archives and Museum agreed to send him one of the original microscope slides presented as evidence at trial that contained tissue from the remains found in the cellar. His laboratory has devised methods to extract and isolate mitochondrial DNA, the genetic blueprint that is passed down in the egg from mother to daughter. "Using that knowledge, we could go and find relatives of Cora Crippen who are living this day and ... analyze their DNA and compare it to the tissue on the slide," Foran said last week. Tracking down a suitable relative of Crippen to obtain a comparable DNA sample was the task assigned to Wills, an amateur genealogist who became obsessed with the case.
Re: Crippen Found Innocent « Reply #1 on Oct 30, 2007, 9:45am »
Bring on Jack the Ripper's DNA. And then start testing the blood of the British royal family. Any bets on whether that is likely to happen any time soon??
Bring on Jack the Ripper's DNA. And then start testing the blood of the British royal family. Any bets on whether that is likely to happen any time soon??
Susan
The Ripper was never caught, and even if he was to what point would such testing serve? And what is your problem with the Royal Family?
... Now, some Michigan medical researchers say their examination of DNA evidence proves conclusively that the human remains were not those of Crippen's wife but of someone else.
I wonder then what happened to his wife and who was under the steps? Was his wife who they thought she was? Many questions here.
Joined: Oct 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,082 Karma: 131
Re: Crippen Found Innocent « Reply #4 on Jun 7, 2008, 3:14pm »
This is indeed a tragedy if true....but serves no genuine role in the debate of Capital Punishment per se. Antis will argue that such exhonerations prove a failure of the system....and indeed it does show such a failure. It shaows the failure of a system which had no safeguards in place to prevent such tragedy..It shows us the need for a system of appeals and it shows us the need for a thorough review of each and every capital case. As bad as I hate to admit it this case clearly shows that we cannot have a fair and equitable sentence of death unless we also have a system of delay to review those cases prior to execution. As pro as I am I fully agree 10 months is far to quick, I think a 2-3 yr period is more than fair granted we limit all appeals strictly to matters of guilt and innocence.
... Now, some Michigan medical researchers say their examination of DNA evidence proves conclusively that the human remains were not those of Crippen's wife but of someone else.
I wonder then what happened to his wife and who was under the steps? Was his wife who they thought she was? Many questions here.
A case from 1910 has no bearing here. First it was pre furman, second the apeals proscess was much shorter. I know that if we looked at every execution all the way back we will find numeropus tradgedies. Today in this age, we have so many safeguards, I doubt that this could happen again.
I wonder then what happened to his wife and who was under the steps? Was his wife who they thought she was? Many questions here.
A case from 1910 has no bearing here. First it was pre furman, second the apeals proscess was much shorter. I know that if we looked at every execution all the way back we will find numeropus tradgedies. Today in this age, we have so many safeguards, I doubt that this could happen again.
it was also in england. and no, it could never happen here, and hasn't since 1976
Bring on Jack the Ripper's DNA. And then start testing the blood of the British royal family. Any bets on whether that is likely to happen any time soon??
Susan
The Ripper was never caught, and even if he was to what point would such testing serve? And what is your problem with the Royal Family?
what's so difficult to understand? she said that jack the ripper was a member of the royal family.
Re: Crippen Found Innocent « Reply #8 on Jun 8, 2008, 10:20am »
What possible bearing does a case tried in England have on the United States criminal justice system? Harvey Hawley Crippen was tried, convicted and hanged in the United Kingdom. I respectfully submit that your quarrel is with the U.K., not the U.S.
A case from 1910 has no bearing here. First it was pre furman, second the apeals proscess was much shorter. I know that if we looked at every execution all the way back we will find numeropus tradgedies. Today in this age, we have so many safeguards, I doubt that this could happen again.
There are cases here where a man was a few days from execution and was later proven not guilty. It would be naive indeed to believe that more have not gone to their deaths because the system is so miserably incompetent.
If three men survive Dead Men's Curve, thirty have gone over it.
A case from 1910 has no bearing here. First it was pre furman, second the apeals proscess was much shorter. I know that if we looked at every execution all the way back we will find numeropus tradgedies. Today in this age, we have so many safeguards, I doubt that this could happen again.
There are cases here where a man was a few days from execution and was later proven not guilty. It would be naive indeed to believe that more have not gone to their deaths because the system is so miserably incompetent.
If three men survive Dead Men's Curve, thirty have gone over it.
The only relevance this would have is if those men were a few days past execution when proven not guilty.
I find the 30 portion absolutely hillarious since not 1 has been conclusively proven with solid fact.
What possible bearing does a case tried in England have on the United States criminal justice system? Harvey Hawley Crippen was tried, convicted and hanged in the United Kingdom. I respectfully submit that your quarrel is with the U.K., not the U.S.
Susan
I dont anyone or anywhere in this article posted by Debs, did she or the author make a reference to the US having anything to do with this case. It was a article posting that this has happened and someone was hung for something they didn't do. it was a interesting article IMO bringing to light that dna testing can be used for cases back in those days... the family of this man might also have some peace knowing a man who was executed in their family wasn't actually guilty... What i dont get with you Susan is how you can be so narrow minded and only think of America, when there is a very big world out there, with history that started before america was even "found" (stolen).
As a lawyer i would have thought you were to look at facts rather than looking at only what you know. You gotta remember just because you have a piece of paper saying you can practice law in america dont mean s*** if you can't think outside your own country and education.
Anyways, thank you Debs great article very interesting.
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Re: Crippen Found Innocent « Reply #12 on Oct 11, 2008, 12:53pm »
I am a little suspicious of this article, because if it came to light that the infamous Crippen was actually innocent, I am sure it would have been plastered all over the British news, and media - and it wasn't.
If it is true, I am not surprised in the slightest that once again the British judicial system failed miserably! After all, we like to punish non-violent crime with decades of incarceration, but rapists and peadophiles get very minimal sentences...a case last year with three counts of rape was expected to see the accused get no more than 5 years...he did the world a favour by commiting suicide on remand...the evidence against him was overwhelming.
I would be curious on the Jack the Ripper DNA...the potential Royal link fascinates people all over the world.
On a personal note, obviously I find the cases of Crippin, Jack the Ripper etc fascinating...that is not because they are British cases, and I am British, it is purely for the case itself. I find US cases just as fascinating, along with many others, from all over the world.