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"I deserve, certainly, the most extreme punishment society has, and I think society deserves to be protected from me and others like me." Ted Bundy
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Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family for a « Thread Started on Mar 5, 2008, 6:21pm »
Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family for a month
EMORY - A high school couple forced to break up spent weeks plotting what became a bloody spree of gunfire and stabbings in the girl's home, leaving her mother and two brothers dead and her father wounded, according to police reports released Monday.
The graphic narrative of the ambush - which includes the 16-year-old daughter allegedly having sex with her boyfriend after he helped kill her family - brought fresh anguish to this remote East Texas town still reeling from the Saturday massacre.
Charlie James Wilkinson, who had been dating Penny and Terry Caffey's 16-year-old daughter, told police the Caffeys had forced the couple to breakup and that his girlfriend wanted her parents dead, according to Rains County Sheriff Department investigators.
"Wilkinson stated that he and (the girl) were in love and the only way they could be together is to kill the parents," the arrest affidavit read.
From there, the detailed reports allege a friend was offered $2,000 to join the plot, say Penny and Terry Caffey were shot repeatedly in their beds and 13-year-old Mathew Caffey received a fatal bullet near his head. His brother, 8-year-old Tyler, was killed after allegedly being stabbed with a sword, according to the complaints.
The lone survivor was Terry Caffey, the father. He was shot five times and remains hospitalized at East Texas Medical Center in nearby Tyler. Caffey saved his own life by crawling 300 yards to a neighbors home to get help.
Tommy Gaston, the family's neighbor and close friend, said Monday that Caffey was improving.
Authorities also released the nearly 31/2-minute 911 call Gaston made after Caffey crawled to his home. Gaston tells a dispatcher that Caffey is bleeding and awake but that he doesn't know where he was shot.
"Where's he bleeding from?" the dispatcher asks.
"He's bloody all over."
"He's bloody all over?"
"Yes."
The family's daughter, whose name is being withheld because of her age, is charged with three counts of capital murder and is being held on $1.5 million bond. According to police reports, she waited in a car with schoolmate Bobbi Gale Johnson, 18, down the road while the killings took place.
Johnson, Wilkinson and Charles Allen Waid, 20, are also charged with three counts of capital murder. They are being held on $1.5 million bond at Rains County jail; the Caffeys' daughter is at a juvenile detention facility in neighboring Hunt County.
"In this neighborhood, you just think the worst crime you have is somebody hitting your mailbox," said Harold Read, a neighbor.
Read said that image of the area changed Saturday morning when he heard the gunshots.
"I thought I heard thunder, like boom, boom, boom," he said.
The accused teens allegedly tried to burn the home down after the fatal shooting.
The daughter, Wilkinson and two others are charged with three counts of capital murder in the pre-dawn Saturday massacre at the Caffeys' wooded home.
People who know the teens said they are in shock.
"He was a great kid, good kid," said Jim McCormack, who knew suspect Charles Allen Wade. "The whole family was real good. They were active in their church ... We just can't believe that that would happen. We just can't believe the boy would do this."
At Rains High School, students returned to campus Monday with three of their schoolmates - the Caffeys' daughter, Wilkinson and Johnson - notably absent.
"These were students who had not been in trouble a great deal," Rains school Superintendent David Seago said. "Maybe some tardies and absences, but that's it."
According to the complaint, the four suspects met Friday night to hatch a plan. Wilkinson allegedly told investigators that he and his girlfriend talked about killing her parents for about a month. He said the Caffeys decided they could no longer see each other and took away their daughter's cell phone.
"Waid stated that (they) met last night ... and it was decided to just walk in there and take care of business," the report reads.
The fire was started to cover the crimes, the complaint states. Waid and Wilkinson allegedly took cash and jewelry before calling the girls to drive back toward the house and pick them up.
Afterward, "Wilkinson stated that he and (the girl) had sex and slept," investigators wrote.
Seago, the school superintendent, said the Caffeys' daughter had enrolled in the school just six weeks earlier. Classmates and Emory residents have said she previously had been homeschooled.
The Caffeys lived in Alba, a neighboring town even smaller than Emory and about 60 miles northeast of Dallas. The family's house was one of only three on a pine-canopied, gravel road a few miles off the main two-lane highway running through the county.
The area is so secluded that surrounding neighbors only reported faintly hearing what sound liked thunder early Saturday, and few saw the blaze.
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #1 on Mar 6, 2008, 5:11am »
I don't know what to say. Anyone remember when getting caught smoking in the bathroom at school was a really bad teen-age crime? We are doing something wrong as a society if these are the kind of children being raised.
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #2 on Mar 6, 2008, 12:18pm »
Some parents don't parent anymore. They expect the school, daycare, society, et cetra to raise their kids. I'm not saying all parents that have kids that misbehave are like that, but a good majority of those specific parents have those kind of kids. Some think spanking is a horrible thing to do to your child. I don't think it is horrible to spank your child's butt if they need an attitude adjustment.
Euro-weenie (taken from the urban dictionary) - A European, or American who wishes he/she were European, with an ultra-liberal view of the world, who believes that the United States should roll over like a bunch of pussies and become testicle-less Socialist wimps like they are.
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #3 on Mar 6, 2008, 3:03pm »
I agree, Beez. But it isn't just the fault of the parents. Something has gone terribly wrong if a parent has to fear for his or her life as a result of forbidding a minor child to do something that is in the child's best interest. What I have noticed is that children seem to EXPECT so much these days. They view acquisition of things, or their personal desires, as being of paramount importance. It isn't. They aren't. When did we lose sight of that? How do we retrieve what we've lost? I mean -- "mommy and daddy don't like the boy I am dating. They forbid me to see him. I live under their roof, they pay for all of my needs and then some, but I don't think -- in the infinite wisdom of a 17 year old -- that they have the right to do this. I guess I'll just have to kill them, and both my brothers, too." How did we get there? How can we find our way back?
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #4 on Mar 6, 2008, 11:57pm »
Unfortunately also with homeschooling and private schooling, parents think their kids are going to be better than those kids in public school. Wrong. I know of a few kids that went to private school and the oldest got drunk at her sixteenth birthday party (let alone any parties she went to). I showed up later after they got back from bowling. I am about four years older than her and I had not ever been drunk. I went to public school. One of the poorer high schools in the district and yet I waited until I was 21 to drink and 22 to get a little more than just buzzed.
I think the homeschooling didn't help her meet other people beforehand that might have been better. Maybe.
Sometimes no matter what a parent does, the child(ren) will act up.
I do wonder how she was before they integrated her into public school. I also wonder about how the parents are, as well.
Euro-weenie (taken from the urban dictionary) - A European, or American who wishes he/she were European, with an ultra-liberal view of the world, who believes that the United States should roll over like a bunch of pussies and become testicle-less Socialist wimps like they are.
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #5 on Mar 7, 2008, 8:37am »
I am a product of the New York City public school system. I did just fine. My sisters are also products of the New York City public school system -- both of them are physicians. My children have all gone to private school (albeit private Orthodox Jewish girls' schools) where drugs, guns and acting out just didn't exist. So far, they seem to be doing okay (two are in good colleges, and I basically have no complaints). The baby is in tenth grade. I have friends, however, whose children attend some pretty fancy private schools in New York (not religious ones) -- and some of these kids have drug problems, acting-out issues and small-time problems with police. The key point here is that their parents can afford to make such problems go away. Although I confess some of these kids could use a day or two -- or even a weekend -- in a police lock-up. Might straighten them out. One of these children, the child of a co-worker, has a weekly allowance of $500 and an American Express card underwritten by his parents. That, to me, is crazy. You can get into a whole world of trouble with that kind of cash and credit at your disposal (the kid is 17). And he is not a nice child, but he has been running his parents' household since he was about three years old. I have to say, also, that the parents are as lovely a couple as anyone would want to meet, and they are at their wits' end about their son. Years and years of expensive psychotherapy have not helped. I love them dearly, and would do anything to help them, but I think they need to write their son off as a lost cause. Hopefully, he'll find his way. Military school might help, but the parents reject the idea out of hand.
I do not like the idea of home schooling -- unless both parents are qualified, State-board certified educators.
As to society's ills -- I don't necessarily blame parents, schools, MTV, or lax public morals. Fact is, if I knew what is to be blamed, I'd sleep a lot better at night. But if you don't even know what's broken, how can you fix it?
Joined: Jun 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 2,352 Location: white bluff, tennessee Karma: 22
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #6 on Apr 15, 2008, 3:24pm »
well girls, allow me to tell you exactly what the problem is. forty years or so ago, there were juvenile delinquents, but they were few and far between. that's because you knew that if you told an adult to f off, you would think twice about it as soon as you came out of the coma. you did chores to get a couple of bucks a week to go to the show once, buy a soda a couple of times, and maybe a candy bar. along came an imbecile named dr spock, preaching the idiocy that kids shouldn't be disciplined, that they should be handed everything, and taught that they could do whatever they want, because, they are people too. so many ignorant fools in government latched onto this stupidity that it became law. it sprouted into other ignorance such as not keeping score in sports because it wasn't nice for johnny to feel bad because he lost. you end up with a generation of fools raising kids to be even more stupid, giving them everything and teaching them that they don't have to follow rules if they don't like them. such stupidity as people should respect them without their earning it gets imbedded into the culture, which results in each successive generation being stupider than the one before. it's promoted by imbeciles such as hillary running of the ignorance about "it takes a village" to raise a child. yep, the village has done such a wonderful job that ten times the percentage of kids are criminals now. the irrefutable fact is that kids have one reason for existing, and that is to learn to be responsible adults. when the sole reason for their existence is wiped out by idiots, you get what we have now.
Euro-weenie (taken from the urban dictionary) - A European, or American who wishes he/she were European, with an ultra-liberal view of the world, who believes that the United States should roll over like a bunch of pussies and become testicle-less Socialist wimps like they are.
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #8 on Apr 16, 2008, 1:05am »
i used to live really close to emory , in fact it was one of my favorite places to go fishing . but it was also home to several meth labs meth or speed is horrible down there , the towns are small and far apart 25 to 30 miles in most cases this story has meth written all over it
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #9 on May 7, 2009, 5:58pm »
Whoa. This is the thing you always hear "he/she was such a great kid" and "I cant believe he/she would do something like this!" This is a growing thing in our society look at the media with school shooters and killers. It basicly tells these kids "Hey, no one ever pays attention to you but if you kill someone you get FAMOUS!" Also most of the time when kids are "good" its because its often because of the parents being strict. Being strict is great, its a part of parenting but at the same time you have to give the kid or kids some freedom or they end up like this. She having been home school she must have really been kind of a shut in. They wanted the parents dead because the parents were keeping them away from what they truly wanted. This is upsetting about the victims and also the kids =[
Joined: Aug 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 11 Karma: 0
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #10 on Aug 17, 2009, 9:56pm »
There are an infinite number of variables that influence behavior. I personally don't believe we'll ever be able to predict or explain human behavior-nor do I want to, since that is what makes life worth living.
With that said, let's list some variables that may have had an influence on her decisions, from a "large" to "small" scale (I don't think these necessarily were influential factors, but I listed them for the sake of being thorough): *larger scale factors: -society/cultural values (expectations of children in america; parenting norms, for instance) -violence entertainment/media -evolutionary adaptations: some evolutionary psychologists might argue she killed her family to increase her "fitness" by mating and producing offspring with her boyfriend (I have real issues with this school of thought, but it's very interesting to ponder) *medium scale:developmental/family/"socialization" issues -trauma/abuse history - discipline techniques -relationships with relatives,authority figures, etc -peer relationships (including with her boyfriend) -personality disorders she may qualify for
*"small" scale factors (I.e. We can't see with naked eye)mostly pertaining to brain malfunctions: -psychiatric disorders (mental illness) with or without underlying biochemical imbalance; -tumors -brain injury -obviously, there are many, many more possible causal factors worth considering, but for our discussion here, I won't list them because I'm lazy
Any of these variables, in each individual, is exerting a given amount of influence at a given time that is: A) unique to that person and B)totally unpredictable, because there are too many variables acting at each "scale" of influence to account for.
Depending on who you ask and what their field of expertise is in, any of those variables will have a huge sphere of influence on behavior. -Parents (field of expertise: having and raising children) often cite parenting as a causal factor. -A brain researcher will tell you this young woman's criminal acts are rooted in her underdeveloped teenage brain, which lacks the structures for rational decision making (news flash: teens are impulsive).
And so on. However, at what point to we stop looking at perfectly pinpointing the causes and credit this young woman's acts up to free will? The average person on this board is more concerned with the ethical reasons than legal ones-thats another discussion entirely, and there are many legitimate variables that (likely) had an impact on this crime legally, and are mitigating factors for her sentence.
But I believe, very deeply, in free will. I sometimes resist the notion that violence is, at the most fundamental level, a choice at a level that we cannot study, predict, or cure. It is out of our control, and that is precisely why we are obsessed with looking at the causes and the roots of the problems. Naturally, any reasonable person agrees that it is essential to continue to study behavior and eliminate issues that are obstacles to one's free will (example: schizophrenia).
This girl made a choice in her soul that is deeper than any factors associated with home schooling, spanking one's children, teen attitudes of self-entitlement, or increasing laxity with progressive generations. This girl MURDERED her family: that behavior and thought process is far more severe and deficient in normal fucntioning than anything we have a frame reference for in our lives (hopefully). It's not even on the same planet.
Will we ever be able to stop this kind of cruelty? In my opinion, it is extremely unlikely we will be able to control one another to that extent. I'm not saying we shouldn't prevent what we obviously can, and should as moral people, but we also can accept that other people's feelings and behavior are outside of our control. Therefore, violence will most likely always exist.
Depressing though it may seem, violence (be it in the form of written word, war/oppression, physical violations of others or ourselves, etc) provides us with the best opportunity to cultivate compassion, wisdom, and INNER peace. What else would push us to look into ourselves? After all, I can't control if someone will victimize me, but I CAN control if I use the experience to deepen my own spirituality and compassion.
Joined: Jun 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 2,352 Location: white bluff, tennessee Karma: 22
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #11 on Aug 29, 2009, 6:10am »
compassion for what? the irrefutable FACT is that, regardless of what the nutjobs claim, there is NO societal or environmental factor involved in criminality. each and every individual is solely responsible for their behavior, regardless of their circumstances. NOTHING except a definable mental disorder, ie insanity as defined by mcnaughton, is a mitigating factor in crime, particularly murder
compassion for what? the irrefutable FACT is that, regardless of what the nutjobs claim, there is NO societal or environmental factor involved in criminality. each and every individual is solely responsible for their behavior, regardless of their circumstances. NOTHING except a definable mental disorder, ie insanity as defined by mcnaughton, is a mitigating factor in crime, particularly murder
If you were responding to my post, I encourage you to review it. I agree with your opinion that individuals are responsible for their actions.
Quote:
But I believe, very deeply, in free will. I sometimes resist the notion that violence is, at the most fundamental level, a choice at a level that we cannot study, predict, or cure. It is out of our control, and that is precisely why we are obsessed with looking at the causes and the roots of the problems. Naturally, any reasonable person agrees that it is essential to continue to study behavior and eliminate issues that are obstacles to one's free will (example: schizophrenia).
I do not agree that there are no environmental or societal factors involved in criminal behavior. I'm not sure what you mean by that, and I would be interested to see you elaborate on what you meant. I am curious if you believe in factors such as brain chemistry or anatomy. For example, Charles Whitman (spree killer at a college in Texas, one of the earlier school shootings) was given autopsy post-mortem, and physicians discovered an enormous brain tumor in a region that was known to influence aggression.
As the statement stands, you are arguing that nothing external influences criminal behavior. That statement is not supported by formal research or common knowledge. That is why juries weigh mitigating factors when they are deciding whether to hand down death sentences. As human beings, it is intuitive and reasonable that we do so. In theory, this preserves the integrity of capital punishment in that it will be applied in the MOST cruel and heinous crimes.
If that statement was correct, then murders would be committed by people just as frequently as those who experienced "mitigating factors." The average convicted murderer has been subject to many more circumstances that lead to aggression: Abuse, poverty, drug addiction, brain trauma, etc.
My perspective, and perhaps you would agree, is that those external influences are too numerous and variable to accurately account for one person's behavior. I believe it to be unwise, however, to say that we should not consider the factors whatsoever. Though a brain tumor that influences aggression is not a factor in every murder, it would be an incredible thing if we were able to research the crimes in which it was a factor and create preventative measures. Or, to continue on the idea, say we discovered a way to measure if childhood physical abuse increased a person's tendency towards violent crime (as opposed to becoming withdrawn and/or entering into abusive relationships as an adult).
Does that absolve the murderer of culpability? Absolutely not. Ultimately, it will always come down to the intangible event in a human being's soul when they decide to end another person's life. No amount of science will ever be able to explain or cure it. The dark side of human nature will always be there. People will always hurt other people. I don't feel that is pessimistic; to accept reality and truth is always a beautiful thing in my opinion. Perhaps violence is present to teach us about something deeper than we really know....
Joined: Jun 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 443 Karma: 4
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #13 on Sept 17, 2009, 7:50am »
A beautifully written and perceptive post. I look foreward to more from you. Wouldn't it be both fasinating and frightening if we could extrapolate a childs behavior to determine definitively their future violent behavior? And before you all point it out, I know my spelling is atrocious. I've been knocked unconcious upwards of 30x,if your in agreement of mitigating factors. I was unaware of Charles Witmans brain tumor. Innumerable studies around the world have shown trauma to prefrontal areas of the brain do lead to behavior changes. Again,great post
A beautifully written and perceptive post. I look foreward to more from you. Wouldn't it be both fasinating and frightening if we could extrapolate a childs behavior to determine definitively their future violent behavior? And before you all point it out, I know my spelling is atrocious. I've been knocked unconcious upwards of 30x,if your in agreement of mitigating factors. I was unaware of Charles Witmans brain tumor. Innumerable studies around the world have shown trauma to prefrontal areas of the brain do lead to behavior changes. Again,great post
Oh wow, thank you so much! I appreciate your feedback. Always nice to know when someone "gets" you....
I think science will discover an incredible amount of things in the course of our lifetimes. With all of the technology that is being used, and the money/resources that is allocated to researchers, I imagine it will be a similar to the Industrial Revolution for the brain.
As with the Industrial Revolution, there will be drawbacks along with forward progress in neuropsychology. Just because we can do something, does not mean we should. For example, say we develop a machine that accurately predicts future violence 80% of the time by taking scans of children's brains (I would bet my life that we will never be able to predict the future with 100% accuracy). Do we segregate them from their peers, or do we let the chips fall where they may?
I don't know the answers to those questions completely, though I'm extremely weary of any person or idea that purports to be able to control the future. We can't control anything outside of ourselves, and to believe otherwise is a dangerous illusion. Oddly enough, scientists can be on the extreme ends of both beliefs: Some are control freaks, others are comfortable with letting go of the desire to know everything.
But I will always believe that we will never stop having these questions about other human beings, or life in general. And why would we want to? To be able to accurately predict/control behavior, and thus eliminate pain and suffering, takes away life's meaning. We are supposed to have difficulty, because that's what pushes you to appreciate things. Every painful experience is an opportunity to grow. Let's take the example of the mother of a murdered child. I'm can't say if her child was "meant" to be killed (God's plan kind of thing) or if it was just random chance. Ultimately, the causes of her suffering don't matter. What matters is accepting the reality of her pain, and choosing to see her despair as an opportunity to grow spiritually.
I know I'm going off topic. I can't help it sometimes I guess. Haha I can't even remember why this girl off'ed her parents...
P.S. First of all, the last thing I care about is spelling...I like to connect with people and have honest discussions. So, don't worry about your spelling. If someone ever harps on you for it, they're lame (unless you're in a spelling bee lol)
Joined: Jun 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 443 Karma: 4
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #16 on Sept 18, 2009, 11:33am »
Hi, again,I enjoyed your post immensely,you write beautifully. I'm always critical somewhat of those who explain sudden death,or survival of , by 'Gods will' which many survivors of accidents in which others died attribute their survival to 'Gods will' which then you have to extemporise that God had it in for everyone else who wasn't so lucky. And don't apoligive for going off topic. My segues into unrelated topics is both a given,and usually boring I must admit. We as humans have made great strides in our avoidence of pain,be it physical or physcological. Not many generations ago,people accepted much more pain in their lives,than what we in the first world would ever deem acceptable. Science in a large degree has had at it's core aim the alleiviation of human suffering. Im reminded of what the photographer of Fou Tchou Li, who's execution by 'death of a thousand cuts' called his agonised exstascy at his death, and compared it to many accounts of martyrs ecststic deaths. I'm hesitant to completely agree that without pain,we cannot fully appreciate lives joys. Science,and statistics can give a blunt indicator of who will be more prone to violent behavior,as you said the average murderer has had poverty,head trauma,ect. in their background. That by no means is an excuse for personal choice to be violent,as you agree. If we could at birth,hypothetically ,predict with 80% certainty an individuals propencity to violence...that would open a Pandoras box,wouldn't it? (sorry,I couldn't help myself) As you've stated,just because we can do something doesn't always mean we should. In regards to the crime of which this thread is based, I believe the girls father survived his daughters attempt on his life. I cannot imagine a more harrowing situation. That the child you love has coldly plotted and carried out the murder of her mother and brother,and her father. That is so outside most of our boundries...most of us could be able to imagine situations in which we would kill, but a child who premeditated her families death is so far removed from the possible it is on another planet as you say. As to the dark side of human nature...I'm fascinated by what makes some of our fellow beings able to premediate another humans life. It is so inconcievable to me many of the crimes that that inmates are are DR for,they are so barbaric I do find my antiDP stance very difficult to maintain when I know the crime that is behind the inmate. But I'm fascinated by it,maybe we all are drawn to the macabre in varying degrees. Welcome to the forum,I hope you keep posting,I truely enjoyed your post.
Joined: Jun 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 443 Karma: 4
Re: Police: Girl plotted deadly ambush on family f « Reply #17 on Sept 18, 2009, 2:47pm »
Susan Sontags book 'regarding the pain of others' is a great read, in which she lists and elaborates on the deeply varied reasons why we are drawn to images or written accounts of suffering.
well girls, allow me to tell you exactly what the problem is. forty years or so ago, there were juvenile delinquents, but they were few and far between. that's because you knew that if you told an adult to f off, you would think twice about it as soon as you came out of the coma. you did chores to get a couple of bucks a week to go to the show once, buy a soda a couple of times, and maybe a candy bar. along came an imbecile named dr spock, preaching the idiocy that kids shouldn't be disciplined, that they should be handed everything, and taught that they could do whatever they want, because, they are people too. so many ignorant fools in government latched onto this stupidity that it became law. it sprouted into other ignorance such as not keeping score in sports because it wasn't nice for johnny to feel bad because he lost. you end up with a generation of fools raising kids to be even more stupid, giving them everything and teaching them that they don't have to follow rules if they don't like them. such stupidity as people should respect them without their earning it gets imbedded into the culture, which results in each successive generation being stupider than the one before. it's promoted by imbeciles such as hillary running of the ignorance about "it takes a village" to raise a child. yep, the village has done such a wonderful job that ten times the percentage of kids are criminals now. the irrefutable fact is that kids have one reason for existing, and that is to learn to be responsible adults. when the sole reason for their existence is wiped out by idiots, you get what we have now.
Jim, I'm in complete agreement with 99% of what you wrote, your last sentence is succinctly put, too bad not all realise that that what children need to learn most is how to be socially responsible. The only thing I differ with you in is the role of the community. Society can only exist when the majority mutually consent to follow its structures and laws. It shouldn't only be fear of reprisal that stops us from stealing and killing our fellows. Within more closeknit communities,its also the worry of expulsion and isolation that can curtail behaviour. , 'if I steal from my neighbour it will not only bring shame upon me, but my family ect.' When we no longer wish to contribute to the betterment of community,and do the right thing only out of fear of punitive punishment, I believe that many of peoples checks and balences on criminal behaviour are removed. Community spirit can sound lame, but without itmany obstecles to antisocial behavior are gone. Aside from that minor point,great logic,unfortunatly many wouldn't agree,sadly.
I'm hesitant to completely agree that without pain,we cannot fully appreciate lives joys. Science,and statistics can give a blunt indicator of who will be more prone to violent behavior,as you said the average murderer has had poverty,head trauma,ect. in their background. That by no means is an excuse for personal choice to be violent,as you agree.
great replies, I'll check out that book on amazon! I too am utterly perplexed by the capital cases. Honestly, my informal research on the DP has virtually become a passion (or obsession?) simply because it's the one thing I cannot make sense of. Yeah, we can intellectually analyze the cases, but I find that so...anti-climactic. I feel that I lean towards the anti-DP side, but I don't feel like I actually have a well formed opinion either way for the reasons you mentioned. You should look at my post on Mark Christeson in the forum for inmates with no date...he's the reason why I became obsessed with capital punishment...
I probably should have clarified my beliefs about pain a little more, because looking back at my post, (b/c I didn't agree with what I said either, haha):
Pain and suffering are a fundamental part of life. Or, conversely, we could say that life is neutral, and we place our own subjective judgments on whether something is "painful" or "pleasurable." But that's a little too abstract for our purposes here. I mean, let's take some philosopher and have them experience something traumatic like the murder of a loved one, and my guess is they won't be flapping their gums as much about subjective experiences and such.
So, pain is inevitable, and people will verbalize their agreement with that statement. I know for me, that is difficult sometimes to put into practice! Say I have an argument with a friend-I forget that difficulty is a part of life and I resist the opportunity to learn from the experience.
So, I think what I meant to say is that pain has the potential to help us appreciate our lives, if we accept the reality of it. We are going to have pain at some point in our lives, whether or not we agree that it's a part of life. So why not accept it and choose to create something positive out of it?
My observation of "society's" reaction to traumatic events is that there is a pervasive belief that somehow it should have been prevented. Despite whatever efforts we make, there are tragedies that will not be prevented!
I'll use the example of this girl who killed her family to illustrate my point, since that's our topic of interest. There may have been red flags, such as telling a friend that she wanted to kill her parents. Perhaps her parents (or a teacher, etc) intuitively sensed her growing dysfunctionality. Though it's painfully obvious, the two teenagers were privy to one another's malicious intentions. One of them must have had a moment where their conscience was causing them to feel an internal tension. Yet, silence prevailed, and innocent people were murdered. There were no red flags that were "red" enough to alert an outside party to their intentions. I'm reminded of Dylan Klebold (one of the Columbine killers), who wrote a graphic short story in his English class that mirrored the actual events(it was pretty eerie). The teacher was disturbed by the story and even spoke to him about her concerns. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough...
What caused these tragedies? Like I said, we could intellectually scrutinize every angle of their families, personalities, etc. And, for what it's worth, it is essential that there is time and energy devoted to that.
But there is a deeper truth to the nature of violence, and no amount of expertise, research, or statistics will ever tap into it. I think it does come down to an individual making a choice, in the most private depths of their soul, to cause harm to someone else. Furthermore, I think that's a scary thought for most people, because there's nothing we can do to control individual free will. And that's why I doubt there will ever be something that can predict with 100% certainty another person's behavior. I doubt we'll ever come close! We are all free in that way: We can choose to stay silent about injustice, choose to speak up when we disagree with how someone treats their child, choose to murder, and so on. That's why it is still important for us to do the right thing and prevent the crimes we can.
Accepting that we will never eliminate that percentage of human behavior that is a product of free will is giving up the fantasy that we can control other people. It is also giving up the fantasy that life should be free of pain, because we choose to see how unrealistic that is. We can choose to "play a victim" and act as though life should not be painful for us. Or, we can choose to accept suffering as inevitable, and create something positive. For instance, a murdered loved one is about the most painful thing I can imagine. But there is probably no more perfect opportunity to cultivate forgiveness and compassion. Not that I'd be able to, or that people should...It's their life, and they can choose what they want to learn and create.
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